If you recall, RCSCW made the decision several weeks ago to close its recreation facilities, except for golf courses. Our decision preceded our Governor and all university and national sports associations decisions to do the same.
Our main decision to keep golf open is the fact that golfers do not require a shared physical object to play (a ball being handed back and forth). We took special precautions to ensure social distancing, making sure we adapted and removed most touchable items (flags, holes, rental carts, ball washers, rakes etc.) Yes, there was some early complaining but that grew mostly into thank you messages.
Look at the situation since then. The Arizona numbers within Maricopa County are growing and we are being told that the peak is coming.
If a large wave, hurricane or tornado is approaching, do you not prepare and take cover?
I have learned over years of competition that winning requires a bit of defense to be played.
What appears to be one of the saving graces from this virus is isolation, quarantine and hopefully warm sunny weather. Other countries severely impacted by this virus have adopted this type of stay at home behavior and things are improving and lives are saved.
This is serious and we are managing as such.
With the spread of this virus continuing to grow locally, we feel that the best thing for everyone to do at this time is to stay home.
So far 14 states have specifically banned golf being played (California, Illinois, Maine, Maryland, Massachusetts, Michigan, Minnesota, New Hampshire, New Jersey, New Mexico, Pennsylvania, Vermont, Washington and Wisconsin), and the situation is ever-changing. In some cases, courses, clubs or resorts have opted to pause operations even if their states haven’t mandated it.
A few days ago, our Governor made changes to his initial definition of essential services (beauty salons, manicures and tattoo parlors). I’m not certain that golf is too far behind.
Dealing with the national trends, local health official data and a recent spike in activity, we made the decision to close for the safety of all.
I golf, too, and I understand the frustration as I would rather be out there with you than doing a lot of other things.
You can fault me all you want for making unpopular decisions, but those decisions are honest, transparent and defendable.
You should not find fault in our Association’s attempt to keep members safe and protecting our employees from unnecessary harm.
The best advice given to me is to “Stay At Home,” wash your hands and I hope to see you on the tee box soon.
Stay safe –
William Schwind
General Manager
RCSCW
Thank you for the explanation however I cannot agree. Who gets to decide for us what freedoms we can exercise AND PAY FOR? Too many politicians are assuming powers over us that they do not possess. For you to do the same thing is overreaching and paternalistic.
Better the golf course than Walmart or a grocery store. 72 golfers in their own carts or walking on 7-10 acres is as safe as my home as I need to bring in mail and groceries. So u have forced us to go outside these safe walls and play. And u know what can happen in unknown places
Last evening my wife and I decided to go for a walk. Since the golf courses are closed we decided to walk on Deer Valley. My wife walked on the cart path and I walked next to the path because it is better for my back. A nice gentlemen came after us in a cart and told us we could not walk on the course and would have to leave. This is exasperating to say the least. It makes no sense at all. We have paid our dues but have no facilities we can use. You have decided to close the courses and lose needed revenue but also to prevent us from setting foot on the courses when they are closed!! In our younger years we protested mindless exercises of authority like this. I am too old to carry a sign and march on “City Hall” these days so I am sending this email. What freedoms will you allow us to exercise?
You made a choice that you believe to be in the best interest of the community. I applaud you. You knew you would take a lot of grief, but made the decision anyway.
While I felt most of us were doing a good job of social distancing, I saw people that weren’t, putting others at risk. The careless ones are the ones we need to be most wary of, as their lack of awareness and concern expose them, and consequently us.
When you reopen I hope you clearly lay out the rules. Then enforce them. If people don’t follow them revoke their privledges. I would also keep them closed to outside and neighborhood play, initially. That puts a little more safety in place.
Again, thank you for doing what you believe was right. Be brave and continue to do so. People will bitch, but they will no matter what decision is made. A lot of people think they know better than anyone else, but that’s reason enough for why they aren’t in charge.
Our country has been taken over by doctors. China’s quest for world dominance marches on while we cower in fear. You no doubt are a good man, but you are not a brave one or a free one. The choice should be left to those who play golf, they can choose to stay away if they wish. You have taken away that choice, yet another slap in the face of freedom. I am ashamed for you, so be it. Those of us who have fought for freedoms live on, though the list is getting shorter.
Bill,
Your early decision, albeit unpopular, to close the recreation centers early was BRILLIANT. This single action probably has saved the lives of many in Sun City West. Your decision to close the golf courses was also done in the best interest of the residents and I applaud you. All we have to see is what has happened in Italy, New York, etc to understand this enemy is extremely contagious and can be asymptomatic. That person can put others at risk without even knowing it. The DelWebb Hospital is in no way ready to save the lives of many all at one time. Arizona Governor’s Stay At Home ruling is half-hearted and confusing. We have 6-10 cases here and lets keep them low! Thank you!
Since the golf courses are closed, can we walk on the cart paths. We should be able to do this.
I agree with you wholeheartedly. I am a golfer but feel we should all quarantine ourselves until things are safer. I have two family members in another state that are fighting this virus and pray they will be able beat this horrible thing. Stay safe and keep up the good work!
Well said Bill. I applaud all the things the board as done amidst this pandemic. Although, I must respectfully disagree with the complete closure of the golf courses. The safety measures already put in place seem to be working very well. Another step could have been to cut out non-members from playing in our community. Golfers will find a place to go play, likely outside of our community which frankly increases the risk of contracting the virus and loss of revenue for our community. This isn’t about money, but golf is clearly the largest revenue generating activity in our community. Going forward the loss of revenue clearly speaks to fears about our future cost of owner/member dues to make up the shortfall. Thanks for all you have done!
I agree. Governor Ducy said “Golf courses are an essential service that provide opportunities for outdoor recreation with social distancing”. Stated on March 23.
You are doing a great job Bill! Keep up the good work!
As a golfer, I commend and respect this difficult decision. Thank you for helping us put the health of our community first.
Thank you for your honesty and for working hard to keep us all safe. We appreciate it. Stay safe and healthy!
Your intentions may be good, but you found a way to piss off everybody except maybe the “virus vigilantes“.
thank you for looking out for all of us, I work at one of the courses and while I am sad I think it was the correct thing to do. Stay safe
Thanks for this decision. One life is not worth risking for any amount of golf games.
Thank you, Bill, for looking out for the health and safety of ALL our members. Tough decisions are not always popular. You have my support.
Good call Boss. Thank you.
First of all, I completely disagree with the decision to close the golf courses. I am fully capable of making my own life choices about how to conduct my life. I made a choice when I moved to SCW primarily because to the golf opportunities. There have been a number of suggestions made of ways to keep the golf courses open. Apparently, there is no room to reconsider. Again, I adamantly disagree.
I find it interesting that you cite other states that have closed their golf courses. Check the map, in most of those states. The golf courses aren’t even open yet because there’s still snow on the ground!. California doesn’t count. They’re a bunch of loonies anyway.
I could drone on and on about the complainers who got their way to have to golf courses closed, since I am quite sure that most don’t play golf and are just pissed off because the rec centers were closed and not the golf courses. I suggest you reconsider enforcing the closure of the walking paths because you just might have some pissed off golfer patrolling them to make sure that the complainers stay home.
I am not going to put myself into harms way and I know full well how to take care of myself. I don’t need you making those choices for me. I urge to reconsider opening the golf courses as self serve. Golfers know etiquette and do a pretty good job of respecting the game and those playing it. Why don’t you take a poll of those who play golf as to whether to keep the courses open. That seems fair to me.
I close this by again saying I am in full disagreement with your decision. I have discussed this with many that I play with and others in passing at the golf courses, and I haven’t found one person who agrees with your decision. It amazes me that you would make this decision, when all the other courses in this area remain open. This is a major failure on your part sir.
Explain what is wrong with my comments?
Completely disagree. You succumbed to the whining and bitching of people who aren’t golfers. They are angry and feel like if they are denied their choices of recreation. All the other local courses are open. This is just wrong. The states you cite in your notice are mostly in northern states and are still dealing with cold days and even snow cover. Open the courses. We golfers know how to take care of ourselves. We aren’t careless and we know the risks. Open the courses with self service and we can monitor ourselves.
I am with you Bill well said.
Nice language and you are completely wrong in your reasoning and logic.
Bill, I totally and support what you have said. Too add what has been said before. Golf is entirely different from the other activities. We use our own equipment, addition safety protocols have been put in place and yet, here we are, Golf courses closed.
Other golf courses such as Sun City, Hillcrest etc are all open. So when our President outline’s the protocol for opening the States and our Governor starts to open the State back up, is our GM going to still keep everything closed? Just asking.
After reading some of the Governing Board Bi Laws, I think the GM takes his direction from the board.
Are the board members voted in?
Thank you Bill…my hubby is a golfer also, but let’s get this thing licked, then we can get back to doing the things we love….with no one missing…
Mr. Schwind,
I appreciate and support your leadership and want to be prepared for the worst. My husband golfs 4 – 7 days a week for many months each year and we look forward to when that will come back.
Certainly, you have heard rumors as I have. As long as your decision is made as you have stated and not because of pressure from clubs that I will not mentions, then I am satisfied. It is important to me specifically that your decisions are not of a political nature, but as the leader we want you to be.
Thank you,
Sue Ambler
These are uncertain times and closing down golf if it saves just one person from getting this deadly virus it is well worth it. SCW will come back strong and we will know that decisions have been made in the residents best interest. Thank you Bill!
Did you see that New York state…with the most cases and most deaths HAVE THEIR GOLF COURSES OPEN …if they can keep them open ours should be open
SCW golf will lose money they cant afford to use
Sorry you caved in to hysterical few
Thank goodness we have Hillcrest and sun city and many other courses we can support instead of our own
Hope you are happy with your poor decision
Maybe their courses being open is a major reason for having a higher percentage of victims to the virus.
You have my comments in my email yesterday. I read your message, however, I stand by my email from yesterday. Should the Govenor decide to take golf courses off of the essessential services list it would be out of our hands. Until then, or if there is a significant outbreak of Covid 19 in SCW I still believe it appropriate to keep the courses open.
Tough decisions are needing to be made to keep our citizenry safe. Thank you for your leadership in this Bill. Be well.
Thank you for all you are doing to try to keep us safe. You have been ahead of the curve since the beginning. We appreciate it. Hang in there and we will meet you on the other side of this.
Thank you
New Residents
Thank you! This is appropriate action at this time. We will get through this and some day be able to thank you in person.
Good Leaders Make Wise Decisions, Great Leaders Make Tough Decisions. Thanks for trying to Keep us safe
Just talk. No data or no proof. There are sufficient safeguards being done. It is not like a bowling alley
I commend you for making a difficult decision and for doing what you feel is right. Regarding the negative comments regarding your decision,
it sure seemed to me that there were a lot of second guessing and misinformed statements.
My wife and I live on the 1st fairway of Hillcrest Golf Club and watch a lot of golfers go by each day. There was a considerable increase in the number of walkers and golf cars with only one person however, there were still a lot of golfers that made the decision to simply ignore the social distance rules that have been put in place. I would bet that the same thing was going on at the SCW courses.
I think you made the correct decision.
I played golf this morning and will miss playing again anytime soon. I totally agree with the decision to shut down the golf courses and strongly recommend that everyone stay home and stay safe. We are experiencing a crisis that is unprecedented in our country and while many don’t want their live style interrupted, it is vital that people realize the severity of the crisis and accept that life as we know it is not possible at this time. We must undrstand that until a vaccine is developed this is not going to go away!
I, too, am a golfer so I understand the frustration of golfers not being able to get out there and enjoy everything about the game. BUT, we must do what we can to assure that there truly will be ‘life after golf’ and if it means giving it up temporarily, so be it! Kudos to our managers for making hard decisions to try to protect us from ourselves.
I can understand and accept your reasoning as stated above. However if golf is an inherent danger beginning next week, it is a danger today. I don’t understand the reason golf is operational this week. The idea that it’s because many golfers already had tee time reservations is ridiculous. It certainly wouldn’t have been hard to send a communication that golf was immediately suspended once the decision was made. I believe for many people this is why folks don’t buy it.
Thank You! My sister is an ER nurse at Banner, cases are growing. Please, EVERYONE stay home. My daughter is a surgeon currently at the VA Hospital in DC. It is bad, and only going to get worse. Stay Home!
I really appreciate all you’ve done and are continuing to do. Thank you. These are not easy decisions, and too many people just don’t get that.
Well done. Thank you for all you do for our community
If this decision was made because of coronavirus concerns why not close the courses immediately? And how is this loss of revenue going to be recouped?
Bill.
I understand your concern. However, with all the precautions the courses have taken golf is no more a risk than going for a walk. Remember the governor and all the experts ENCOURAGE going outside to walk and exercise. As you said golf has NOT been prohibited by the governor around the state and I feel you should reconsider and open it back up.
What will happen to the golf Card holders? My wife and I just bought annual passes. I hope the expiration date is extended.
Wise decision
As much as I dislike your decision, I completely understand. We have a lot of older people here with health issues if the virus takes hold many could die. Thanks for making a decision that I couldn’t make.
I’m sure golfers feel as though they have been singled out but riding in a cart together ,laughing and high fiveing on the green are all things that go against the rules of fighting this virus. Tennis, Pickleball bowling And other sports could say the same things golfers are saying now BUT we have bit the bullet and followed the rules for the most of it. I personally want to thank you for your decision on this unfavorable task. I to am a golfer, Pickleball player,bowler n racquetball player but haven’t played since this pandemic and am still going strong.
Great job
Agree 100%
Good Decision! And I like your reference to Winning requires playing Defence.
Get rid of the temporary pickle ball courts at the end of Williams Dr. If I can’t golf they don’t need to play
and touch the balls and be close to each other. Don’t enjoy the racket sound in my back patio.
Mr. Schwind,
Thank you for being pro-active in your work. These efforts will save lives.
Be Safe Stay Healthy
While we appreciate your concern for our health and safety, unfortunately the other courses in our immediate area will not be following your lead. Therefore our golfers will be traveling to other courses to play and will expose them to the possibility of contracting the virus only to return to the community. We had been doing just fine up to this point. If you truly wanted to completely protect us wouldn’t you have closed long ago. The governor stills deems golf as an essential to Arizonans.
Good call! People tend to push the boundaries even unintentionally! Safety is the
Most important thing. Thanks for all the hard decisions you have been facing and making!
about time i have drivem past a golf course where all 4 players were next to each other if they cannot themselves this will do it
Thanks, we are both golfers and wish we didn’t have to stay home. Both the health and safety of our friends and residents is top priority. Will gladly wait.
I appreciate your concern for our safety and good health. So, with the courses closing in less than one week, why would the ground crew decide to spray chemicals on the course at Echo Masa last Thursday while golfers were on the course. Couldn’t they have waited until the course was closed. Hope they weren’t using Roundup!
Thank you for supporting everyone’s safety and health
Very nice to the point message. Thank You.
The General Manager should have added pictures showing golfers NOT social distancing, riding together in golf carts, hanging out in the parking lots or on the golf courses drinking beer, and speaking to one another face-to-face. I believe this was an underlying problem as it was so obvious.
I support this decision and I couldn’t agree more. Thank you.
Amid this COVID-19 Crisis, Golf can be played safely; Please open the golf courses.
Thank you for watching out for our welfare and being proactive. Yes, I miss my activities-pickleball, swimming, tennis, cards, mini golf, but value our health more. The motto, This Too Shall Pass seems applicable for all. Thank you and may you and yours stay safe and healthy so that we can all enjoy the future here at SCW.
Thank you very much. I live on Echo Mesa Golf Course plus we play golf. Daily we would see groups come through and were social distancing THEN here comes another group riding together, standing next to each other. Makes one wonder do they read the CDC report, news, etc. These people who don’t follow the rules are putting all of us at risk. Again, thank you.
Guess the pickle ball players are happy now!
I think this is a poor decision. Under the current system, golfers are not making dangerous contact with anyone. We ride our own carts, play our own ball with our own clubs. We use our own ball washers and do not touch anything that isn’t our own. We also keep the social distancing requirement of 6 feet. In most cases we are much further apart. There is no instance in or around the club house that we would not be able to maintain comfortable social distancing.
This is an unnecessary overreaction to the threat of the virus. At some point good common sense, not panic, needs to be part of the decision making process.
Brilliant move. Instead of having SCW residents play within our community where safety procedures are in place, golfers will be going to other courses nearby to play. In doing so they will potentially be exposed to conditions that are not as safe as they are in SCW. Upon completion of their rounds they will return to their homes, possibly carrying the virus into our community.
Good for you! Socialization is not of no consequence out on the golf courses. Lawn Bowls the same.
Doesn’t make sense to me. But when you can get subsidized by a taxing entity what difference does it make? There are a lot of courses open outside the compound.
Well said!
On Tuesday April 7th the Arizona governor specifically said that golf courses should remain open to provide healthy and safe excersing for our community. The previous steps you have taken are keeping the courses safe. Please reconsider keeping the courses open for all.
I commend you on a job well done!!!
Dear Mr. Schwind,
You are making decisions with the best information available and with the best intentions in mind. You are doing an excellent job
With the closure of the golf courses, what is going to be the policy for the prepaid cards (Kachina, etc.)?
People will play golf if they feel safe all that you have done is to overcrowd hillcrest and force players. To go out side our compound to play. Witch will result in more Covid 9 . Being brought back to SCW. What I feel is a huge mistake . WE will live with your ruling . Albeit the wrong one .
I am not a golfer, okay maybe once a year, but this saddens me for those who play often. What I have observed on the courses when I am out for a walk is that the golfers are keeping safe distances from each other. Someone suggested keeping golf open for residents only, and that sounds reasonable.
I applaud you for trying to keep us safe, but I think we should have accommodation where feasible. As an example, why shouldn’t people from the same household be allowed to use a pickleball or tennis court together?
Thanks for considering this and for all you do for our community.
William, is acceptable to walk the courses? Just walk no go golf.
Thanks for having the courage to close the courses. I am also a golfer but support your decision 100% as there were to many people not following the 6ft rule.
I believe this was a poor decision, probably due to pressure from the ‘fun haters’ in our community. This is a golfing community. That’s the way it was in the beginning and that’s why we’re here. Golf in SCW has been made safe, and a great way to avoid rotting on the couch.
As far as transparency is concerned, I don’t see it. This was a decision made without golfer input. Who represented us? Sure seems like you jumped the gun.
I know these are difficult decisions. Thank you for acting pro-actively to protect the well-being of Sun City West residents.
Thank you
While your intentions are admirable I think they are far to draconian. I agreed with all of the provisions initially placed while golfing. You still require staff to maintain the golf course whether its being played on or not… by cutting off golf for all you are going to cause major funding problems for golf operations. Will you be reimbursing this who have signed up for all the bonus cards (Coyote etc.) How about those who pay too have unlimited golf? How do you calculate what you have cost them? With the loss in revenue now, when play is resumed the fees will have to be increased, which in turn will cause less play so the deficit will grow. Then you will have the clamouring that golf should not be subsidized by the entire community, even though the golf facilities are one of the largest if not THE Largest reason folks are attracted to Sun City West.
As long as public transportation is being allowed to continue without any safe guards to stop the spread on buses and trains in the Phoenix area, the covid-19 epidemic will continue to spread. Who is more likely to be infected, someone playing golf outside in the fresh air, riding in his or her own golf cart, keeping the required social distancing, and having minimal physical interaction with their playing partners or fifty people or more crowded into a grocery or drug store, into movie theatre or walking the mall in a crowded shopping centre. The staff at the golf courses have very little interpersonal contact with golfers, and I’m sure a way could be arranged to prepay your golf fees on your Rec Card and all that would be required at check-in is to stand a minimum of six feet away and give your Rec Card number. surely this could be removed as a problem with a minimum of effort by the staff.
In conclusion we are in for a long, hot summer, with all the pools closed, Rec Centres closed etc. as everybody is trying to do their part to be part of the solution, not part of the problem. Why make it worse for those staying in SCW for the entire summer. Look closer at the golf operations and I’m sure you can come up with a solution to allow you to keep the golf courses open this summer. Are Briarwood and Hillcrest going to be completely shut down using the same logic??? Please look for ways to keep as much open as possible in the hopes that permanent damage doesn’t result from decisions made in haste without considering the long term ramifications of your actions.
What kind of a doctor are you? Not a medical physician for sure!
Hi, I understand the difficulty in making decisions but in this case your wrong.
No other faculty in the Valley has made this kind of change. Especially at the
expense of dollars for the Association. It sounds like we are giving up $800,000
because of some people think it’s unfair. Really, the golfers that I’ve seen have
honored and respected every change with social distancing. Now we have a
few whiners and golf gets shut down. I thing the golfers should be aplaued for
helping to support the finances of the Association. Unless there is something
that were not being told golf should be reinstated for play! Thx, Al
Smart move
Agree.
I am a golfer, and really enjoyed the one opportunity left to most of us to get outside and do stuff. Walking is pretty boring LOL. I appreciate it was a tough decision, but I think it was the right one.
Another dumb move… politically motivated. I don’t play the game, anymore, but the method you used to keep strangers separated seemed to work really well. People need to get out and move. Especially the ones in your age group. No reason to shut it down.
You are not following guide lines Why. the governor left them open for the right reason. We need to be able to leave the house ecercise and not be in a group. Do not agree.
Mr. Schwind,
I “Totally” understand your decision. We two, in this household both golf as well and have enjoyed being able to play while keeping the spacing, not handling the flags sticks, etc. etc.. That said I understand the golf assistants will still be monitoring the courses. I/we Totally agree with that decision as well. Most recently we have seen a growing trend of walkers, joggers and dog walkers in the afternoon along behind our house on the 7th fairway of Grandview. While I have called the course a few times and they have said they would send out some one……Yesterday I confronted a woman who not once, twice but 4 times in these last 2 weeks came from the sidewalk with her dog, walked between our houses to the golf course and let her dog (on a 20 foot lease) run wild and do his business! When I confronted her from my patio I told her about the property clearly being marked Private property and access was only for golfers. I told her she has been seen numerous times violating course regulations but she just slowly walked to the east grumbling….yeah, yeah, yeah! Our family members have been residents here since 1978. We all came because it was known as a golfing community that offered so much more than just golf and most anybody would find it hard to NOT enjoy themselves here.
Lets hope the golfers assistants don’t run into too many who think they are better and above the rest of us who chose to uphold the rules and laws that keep us all safer.
Be well and stay Well,
The Stewarts on Grandview GC
I am not sure that you have the power or the right to go against the governors directive that golf courses are essential businesses. I believe your decision to close down our golf courses will come back to bite you in the ###. This community has banded together to stay at home except golf and grocery shopping and as far as anybody knows, there are very few if any cases here in town. I feel safer on the golf course than anywhere in town. Your decision has created a situation where avid golfers such as myself and many friends are going to go outside the compound to play golf. So what have you accomplished by your decision. Now our golfers go to other places where they may not be as conscientious as SCW and bring the virus back here. I believe that you will regret your decision to shut down the courses and you may have created a monster by others playing golf elsewhere. As far as I know SCGrand and Sun City courses are open. Your decision defies logic when you can drive 20 minutes away and play golf.
The Governor’s proclamation as it pertains to essential businesses states those businesses “may” stay open. Local, state and federal entities have all stated individuals 65 and older, and those with chronic diseases are part of the high risk population. As private business, we have, in accordance with state law, chosen to close our facilities at this time. We will reopen as soon as it is safe to do so.
Thank you for, no doubt, countless hours managing policies during this pandemic. We applaud what you are doing! Thank you for making difficult decisions with the health and safety of our residents in mind. Decisions like you are making are what makes this community great! Thank you for your hard work and dedication!!
I am a golfer, going to miss it but thank you for being proactive.
Since the Rec Center has decided to close all golf courses, which are open spaces, are the walking paths going to be re-closed. What about residents walking in their neighborhoods on sidewalks and streets. I feel this closure is going overboard.
if you are sincere about protecting us from harm, I suggest you also make all the people who own dogs stay at home with there dogs. while you are at it what makes you think the golfers will stop playing the rest of the state golf courses are open. think about that revenue going elsewhere.plese reconsider thank you
Wouldn’t it be nice if we could use the golf routes as walking trails so we could get some exercise and fresh air. If walkers went only one direction on the paths (paint a few directional arrows), we could easily keep the social distancing in place.
Regards Bill,
Certainly a tough job specifically ATM. Bill, you had done everything perfectly to minimize golfer contact and cross-contamination. Yet this was not good enough for the ‘natties’ that sat and watched to see if at any time any golfers got a bit closer than 6 feet. Many were Pickleballers and the like who are just jealous that we could play our sport (Highly Modified) and they couldn’t theirs.
Two spin-offs here:
1. No one else pays for their pleasure as golfers. Bowlers, yes but shutting the allies down has no real cost/loss effect. Shutting the courses down, SCW’s only real revenue save Rec fees, is extremely detrimental to our city and specifically golfers who will pay double for your decision with higher course fees and higher Rec fees. Is it possibly time to start charging ‘Pickelballers’ and Softballers by the game or the days outing? They should share in the increases as their constant complaints (Mob Mentality Pressure) caused you to disobey our Governor’s ruling on the subject. Sir, you are NOT a Mayor. I find you decision both wrong and arrogant.
2. You have now put this community at risk as golfers are now getting in cars sometimes 2,3 or 4 in the same car and heading out of the city to open courses, some courses are still serving food, and then returning to our city. Goodness! Why are you adding another source of virus contamination that could have been averted by leaving our courses open?
At this time there are few if any cases or deaths in SCW and with warming Temperatures, Mother Nature is helping. Saying that we are Maricopa county and not sharing full disclosure of the virus cases/deaths in our city is a cop-out and just wrong! We deserve to KNOW!
Sir, as a life-long Emergency Management professional I would beg you to reconsider your action until the State closes all courses!
Makes sense no one has died from not being able to golf but could die from this infection. To non golfers not closing it when everything else was didn’t make sense. We will survive all of the social distancing and life will be fun again. Stay well.
Isn’t that closing the barn door after the horse is loose? We are peaking with the virus. Have you acquiesced to the non golfing community complaints? How is the SCWRC going to make up the revenue?
This too shall pass. Thank you for your efforts to protect our community and our friends. I am a golfer, and look forward to playin again but not playing for a short while may help in getting things back to normal a little sooner.
Mr. Schwind,
You and your staff should be commended for taking the earlier steps to make the golf courses safe and accessible. But I don’t see the need to close them now, even as an extra measure of caution. I doubt that Maricopa statistics reflects Sun City West, unless you have information otherwise. And even so, the projected increase in C-19 for a large geographical area with a population of 5 million people (increasing at a rate of 100,000 each year) is hardly comparable to a flood. Would the decision be the same if SCW were located a few miles away, over a county line? Golf, as you have it set up now, is just as safe as taking a walk around the neighborhood. I suppose that’s next?
These are scary times and I want everyone safe. I stay current on updates, safety protocols, latest research, etc. and my wife and I are doing all we can to keep ourselves and others safe. Frankly, I feel I am just as safe out on the golf course as I am at home. Probably safer as at least I’m getting some exercise. Perhaps restricting play to Rec Card holders would reduce potential exposure from outside the community? Since they do little more than walk on the grass, I’m not sure that would not change much.
I hope your decision has not been unduly based on what Governors in other states may have done for whatever reasons they may have done it. Or by pressure of groups jealous that their activities can’t be structured to be enjoyed as safely as golf. (I’m an avid pickleballer, but I understand.). When looked at logically and rationally, there really is no reason that SCW needs to close down the courses. The exception may be that employees can’t do there jobs in a reasonably safe manner?
It certainly is your call to make, concerning golf course closures. I do not agree with the decision, when you base it upon speculation of what the governor may or might not do. This decision should be based upon guidelines available to you from government type sources, and NOT Sun City West community. This edict could cause local golfers to go elsewhere and play with the possibility they could contract the virus there and bring it back into the community. It is kind of like a two sided sword that could be worse than a status quo.
Ditto.
When the decisions to close most of SCW were made, I questioned the need to close all the outdoor activities except golf. The closing of dog parks, pickleball, and walking areas in particular did not make a lot of sense. There are many ways virus distancing can be accomplished in activities like those! Maybe it takes a little work, but it can be done.
Now, you have closed down golf, the last remaining activity available to our owners. There is little to no justification for this!!! I believe you have knuckled under to all the complainers and whiners, (and there are plenty) I am certain. I felt that the precautions that were instituted for playing were a good response and made for a safe experience. The risk was minimal to begin with and with the new rules I felt that the activity was very safe or I wouldn’t have been involved.
Now you have changed the dynamic and it will be very hard to open golf before you are able to open everything at some undefined future date.
Because, when in the hell is it ever going to be ‘safe enough’ again? Think about that for a moment.
You caved and I think you will regret it. It is a mistake. And, I am not very happy, along with a lot of other people.
I will be expecting to see my Kachina card rebate, soon.
With the closure of all of our rec center activities, can we except to see at least a 25% reduction in our rec. services fee for next year?
Bill I know you are trying to watch over us, but until the state says no golf we should be able to play golf
Thank you for making this difficult and wise decision!! I am a golfer too. I regret the fact that I must avoid golf for the short term but I celebrate the chance to play golf down the road when things are safe!!
Best wishes to you and yours and stay safe!!
Sir, unless you know something bad that the rest of us don’t know I think this is a massive overreaction to the problem. As you know, no other city in Az. has done this. Also the economic impact to SCW will be very significant. Did you say you did this without checking with the board?? Again don’t you think this is also a overreaction? Hope you reconsider.
Respectfully;
Sir. unless you know something bad that the rest of us don’t know I think this is a massive overreaction to the problem As you know, no other city in AZ has done this. Also the economic impact to SCW will be very significant. Did you say you did this without checking with the board?? Again don’t you think this is a also a overreaction? Hope you reconsider
Respectfully
I agree that golf should be reopened immediately. Otherwise people will just go to outside courses. More dangerous and losing much needed revenue
Monday, I would have said the RCSCW was doing an exceptional job of keeping the golf courses open for residents during this time of crisis. I drove my own cart and clubs to the golf course, paid for golf with money on my rec card and took my own receipt. There was NO physical exchange of anything with pro shop staff.
Our foursome then played golf, driving individual carts, not touching the flagstick, ball washers or rakes because there aren’t any. For 18 holes we socially distanced ourselves, touched elbows at the end and then went home. I felt very, very safe. Definitely safer than going to the grocery store!
Fast forward one week with the RCSCW golf courses closed. Since there are still golf courses open and willing to take my money, the same four people will pile their bags and themselves into a car for the drive to a more expensive golf course staffed by people from the general community and unknown sanitation procedures. Following golf, of course, they will return to the SCW community, grocery stores, etc.
I trust our community more than I do the outside courses.
Sorry Bill, but I strongly disagree along with all the other golfers I have talked to.
Cortabella is staying open along with Briarwood, Hillcrest, Sun City, Westbrook, Peoria, and the list goes on.
It would be almost impossible to catch any type of disease on a golf course in the open air riding in privately owned golf carts or even walking!
Will you close the sidewalks next?
I totally disagree with your decision to close the golf courses in SSW. I am a golfer and the people I play with
and the golfers I have observed have practiced distancing. One golfer to a cart, no hand washers, floaties in
the hole, no rakes in the sand traps, no congregating in the clubhouse or around the coarse. Tell me where
the viris danger exists? From what I can tell is you’re bending to those who complain about everything. The
financial hit from closing the golf coarses down will take years to recover. Money that is badly needed to
operate Sun City West. Many people have left to go back to their summer homes already further crippling our
economy here. If you try to raise the yearly Rec fees to cover this years losses you will see many homes for sale
because people don’t want to pay any more, thereby droping home values on those that remain. I think you’re
making a huge mistake.
If it’s so urgent why didn’t you just close them down instead of waiting a week it almost seems to me like there’s people to pay their dues and the rec centers are closed down so they’re complaining that the golf courses are open so we are being punished because they can’t participate in the rec centers Sun City is not closing their courses I don’t know I just can’t understand I know that you’reTrying to do what’s best for the community and I can’t fault you for that but I just having a hard time understanding what’s going on
Golf courses closed, but walking trails open? Hmmm.
Walking trails are closed too. Some people break the rules, unfortunately. We cannot patrol all the facilities all the time, and have chosen not to patrol the walking tracks at this time.
I feel you are making a decision that doesn’t follow what the state of Arizona should be making. I will do everything I can to make sure you will not be in your position anymore. You are not smarter than our Government.
Hi Al Grochol. The Governor’s proclamation as it pertains to essential businesses states those businesses “may” stay open. Local, state and federal entities have all stated individuals 65 and older, and those with chronic diseases are part of the high risk population. As private business, we have, in accordance with state law, chosen to close our facilities at this time. We will reopen as soon as it is safe to do so.
I have to hand it to you, you are standing by what you think. The only problem is you have forced us to go outside to play. That has put us at a much greater risk of coming in contact with someone that might have a problem. You stated that the golfers were getting to close together, well when most groups play they want to know who the winners are, so they wait around until the last group comes in. Most of us still sitting in our carts. Yes I know it might appear we are to close. I just feel you paint all of us as the same.
Who will be in charge of compliance enforcement and what are consequences of noncompliance
Thanks. I support your efforts. I just started to golf better after having both hips replaced by CORE, handicap back down to 14, and shot 86 today. But I can take a break. Deer Valley will still be here when this pandemic subsides. I kind of like having a styrene noodle in the hole. Maybe we could continue with that in the future?
There is nothing noble or honest about this. If this was so important, why weren’t these courses closed immediately?
I am unaware of any golfers or staff being infected. Of course that could be wrong.
This will only drive golfers off campus, to other open courses.
It’s a shame.
We fall under the rules of 6 feet separation. I understand there were a few that there were a few not abiding by that rule. Not different than any other place. I saw nothing but respect and hope you can open after aeration is over. There are people that are pissed they can’t do their respective sports and so feel golf should fall under that. Separation in golf is possible. Please don’t take the next step and ban taking a walk. You have to remember that golf is and always will be a walk ruined.
Thank You ,Thank You ,Thank You !
Thank you! I work for Golf Ops and I am temporarily out of a job but I feel to stay at home will help the spread of this virus.
Thank you for your caring and safety measures. I do appreciate it!
I thought the SCW powers to be did a great job setting up the the courses for protection and safety.I find it absurd that the
courses will be closed until further notice. What an assinine idea.
This is just BS. It’s safer the way we have been playing than going to CVS or the grocery store. You have defied the governor. I see a class action suit coming as you are also taking my prepaid unlimited fee but not allowing me to use it. This is just to appease the rich that are complaining we can play but their facilities are closed. U have just forced us to go where the courses are open and to expose ourselves outside the walls and possibly carry back the virus. Smooth move. NOT!
Michael, as a private business we are not required to keep golf courses open. That applies to municipal governments. Prepaid golf fees will be accommodated; details are still being worked out as it depends on when we reopen. Thank you.
Thank you for being proactive from the start. Thank you for thinking of all our health and well being.
And the ” complainers” will “maybe” live to complain another day!😏
Thank you, and our staff.
Stay safe And well.
While I do not golf I can relate to losing an activity (or three in my case) to this pandemic. While I and I’m sure many others in the clubs I’m in were not pleased about the closures I fully understand the reasoning behind it. I would hate to be the reason any one of the great people In my clubs got sick or died because we could stay put for a while. All I or anyone else can hope for is that the reopening is as fast as the closing was.
Thank you so much for your wise decision for the protection of the SCW Golf employees and members. It is sad to lose our favorite pastime for a while, but it is necessary. We look forward to being able to golf again very soon. Thank you again.
Once the courses close, may we walk in cart paths?
I am very disappointed with your decision to close the golf courses. I am a golfer and can assure you that we have all been practicing social distancing, refrained from touching the flagsticks or anyone else’s ball, and have not exchanged scorecards. Being outdoors in the fresh air and getting exercise are two things that will keep us healthy physically and mentally as well as being involved with others even if it is from a distance. This will also have a drastic impact on the financial condition of RCSCW and will no doubt bring about a large increase in dues which will hurt many. I will continue to play golf four days a week and the money will leave our community. We can no longer call ourselves a golfing community. Again, I think this was a very poor decision made in haste and the financial consequences will be severe.
Thanks for making the tough decision, Bill.
Very well done. Should have done a month ago. Problem is, how is this closure to be enforced? And, by whom?
Good luck!
Closing golf courses is ridiculous. Golfers practice social distancing better than any other activity. Removing objects on the course that people touch was an excellent idea and made it safe for all golfers. No touching objects in the pro shop protected employees.
I believe you succumbed to the complaints of none golfers bitching because they saw people enjoying themselves and they couldn’t.
Since we do not have any city government leadership in SCW can you give us a report on how many viruses cases in SCW? We are getting wild reports from family saying it is not safe in SCW. Thanks
Go the web site AZDHS.gov, it will show you how many known cases per zip code. SCW has less than 10.
Hello Bill! I have been meaning to contact you and express my sincere admiration for your steady management hand during this extraordinary time. I applauded your initial decision to close our facilities even though others were decrying it for being overreaching and overreacting. I’ve spoken to other residents who said they now see the wisdom and foresight of that decision and are glad it was made when it was. I was impressed with the restrictions put in place to mitigate possible virus spread and felt it was a good compromise in allowing residents to avail themselves of the positive attributes of golfing while eliminating the potential for community spread of COVID-19 – insomuch as that was possible. Your latest decision to close golfing is also one I support. I respect your decision making and thank you for being responsible!
Well Put. I bless your concerns and agree 100%.
Agree with this decision. Many residents are taking all possible precautions; however, there are too many others that simply don’t get it. Therefore, action must be taken to protect everyone, even those who feel bulletproof.
I feel this was a great decision you have made. Hopefully this will come to a close shortly and we can begin to resume our lives.
Thank you for your efforts on our behalf.
Thanks for your hard work and ability to make decisions I, personally, agreed with the decision to allow golf to be played abd applaud you and your staff for implementing additional safety measures.
May we all stay strong, positive, and patient
I do not agree with your decision to close golf!
It is one event that you do not come in contact with anyone. Your comparison to a tornado or hurricane is moronic. If someone does not feel safe at the golf course they can elect to stay home and don’t need you to make that decision for them.
I would think with closing every activity available in Sun City West there will be an adjustment to the dues.
I do hope you will be replaced as G.M.
You are doing the right thing, I totally agree with your actions,! Lives before golf
Do you have any statistics on the number of people here in SCW 85375 who have been affected by the Coronavirus and how many have died? All the golfers I know are observing the new rules.
I understand the caution, and I certainly understand the seriousness of this virus.
However, the golf courses of SCW serve many hundreds of our residents each day.
They have instituted all the safety measures advised by the state and local rules.
To my knowledge there have been no virus cases so far among the players or their families.
Golf serves as one area of our lives which is healthy, in the fresh air, and good exercise.
My hope is that this action will be reversed at the earliest opportunity. Some semblance of
normal living does wonders for morale these days.
Why is April 14 different from last week or this week?
I am not a golfer and neither is my husband but I believe this decision is overkill. Golfing naturally is social distancing. Everyone I see is in their golf cart alone. It was the one last enjoyment taken away. The price for this extremism of enforced isolation has already been reported by increased use of alcohol, abuse in the homes, depression, etc. Please rethink this decision because there is no need for causing more pain during this difficult time.
It is reticulitis. You are over playing the issue.
I am still waiting to hear what kind of compensation will be provided to golf card holders. I estimate that every week the courses are closed is $118 out my wife and my pocket.
I know you are making the right decision and are looking out for all of us. Thank you. See you on tee tee box…..soon, I hope.
This is the most inane decision. Unlike other sports activities NONE OF GOLF EQUIPMENT is shared between individuals. You have removed all “touchable ” objects from the course, like ball washers, etc. You shut down the Rec Centers before anyone else, and now you remove golf. You even admit that only 14 states have closed their golf courses and AZ is NOT ONE OF THEM. What makes you think you have a better handle on this? If it’s the whining from other clubs, than I would have thought you would be brave enough to withstand whiners and do what is right for both PHYSICAL AND MENTAL health of the residents of SCW. Obviously if you can’t take the heat of disagreement, then RESIGN.
Dear Bill,
I understand the fear in the general public over the coronavirus. I believe we should be careful, but I think the decision to close golf courses in Sun City West is over-reaction. I know of people in our community that are miserable because their lives are not normal. Some of these individuals want everyone to be as unhappy as they are. I have seen the great efforts by the personal at the golf courses to enforce the safety guidelines outlined by the medical community. The golfers have been beyond courteous to follow these rules. Some of the complainers have not even been to the golf course in the past few weeks. I will still able to play every week with my foursome, but it will now be outside our community courses. I hope common sense will prevail in this hysteria of what to do. We are blessed to live in the United States. Our medical teams are way above the world’s average. We have a few hot spots, but we are not even close to what the models have projected. We are even more blessed to live in Arizona where the risk is quite small compared to other diseases. There is much hope and excitement to move back to normal soon. As citizens we need to stop listening to the CNN’s of the world. Many are fearful because they don’t hear about the progress that is being made. I am 73 years old and am not afraid to go out and grocery shop. I spent my life in the medical field and know the sky is not falling. It was enjoyable to see how efficient the golf course have been working and I would like to see that continue.
Thank you for all you and the board do. I know it must be way more than you expected when you all signed on .
keep up the great work and thanks for protecting all of us.
I don’t get your “reasoning”? Golf is an open air game with no contact with other individuals. Golfers don’t breath heavily as in other sports, so they are not breathing on others. They use their own equipment , so they don’t touch other persons equipment. They use your own golf cart and are not touching someone else’s cart, therefore no contact. Sun City West residence have a much better chance of contacting the virus in the food store, post office or hardware than they ever will on the golf course. With the community closed down there needs to be some outlet for exercise and enjoyment other than just walking around the streets. Getting sun will hinder the chances of getting the virus. People need to be outside more rather than hiding in their home. I would think mental health, relieving stress and exercise would also be a factor in your reasoning. There is no more chance getting the virus on the golf course than taking a walk down the street.
As you know the golf courses in SCW make about $400,000/month. Where is the income coming from too cover this loss…raising golf dues or increasing the Rec. Center fee? From what I see SCW is the only adult community in AZ that is closing their golf courses. PS 12 of the 14 states that have closed their golf courses are in the cold part of the country where the golf courses aren’t open yet. PPS I don’t golf.
WHAT DO YOUI MEAN BY MODERATION!!!!
John Miller, comments are moderated to ensure no one accidentally posts personal information; that they don’t libel/slander an individual. And that we can provide an answer when we approve the comment if one is warranted.
I just submitted a comment and I got a reply of “I need moderation”. What is going on????
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Thank you for your candor and your good decisions. I’m a golfer too, and agree wholeheartedly with your comments and the decision to close. Be safe and see you on the tee box soon!
Your closing of the Sun City West golf courses is at a minimum misguided. The Governor of Arizona has an extensive staff of experts to advise him and he disagrees with you. You need to follow the examples of Sun City and Sun City Grand and reopen all the SCW golf courses immediately.
I agree with this considering I observed golfers not keeping a 6 foot distance, failed to wear gloves or did not wipe any surfaces they touched with alcohol wipes. Also they stayed after golf and drank alcoholic drinks they brought, despite posted warnings. So, this is what happens when people believe they don’t have to follow the rules.
Since SCW is the only Arizona community where golf is being banned, I assume that is due at least in part to the higher susceptibility, for various reasons, of the residents to the virus, and that this action was actually prompted by the discovery of the virus in this community. Since I am sure you would agree that this is a matter of personal safety for all of the residents, which includes myself and my wife, I would appreciate being informed of when the virus was first detected here, the rate of increase, present numbers of infected residents, and what steps are being taken to quarantine and treat these residents.
Thank you for your attention to this matter.
Who do you think you are kidding. There is NO!! Imperial evedince to substantiate this decsion other than your BBS. Don’t we get enough of that from the politicians? The golfing community has been following every protocol the “governing board” has instigated. We are the only “activity” that pays for our opportunity. No tennis patrons, pickle ball patrons, or any other sport that I am aware of get charged a fee EVERY! Time we play a round of golf. What am I missing? Golf is the only sport I am aware of that is actually bringing revenue. I can understand that the other sports are frustrated with the closures but you all have to understand the differences between the sports and not deprive everyone because you can’t play. There is a marked difference between golf and tennis or pickleball. We don’t have to touch anything other than our own ball, we maintain the 6′ social distance or more, usually yards not fee. We do not have to come into contact with ANYONE! Or any equipment, be it a ball, the net etc. I can understand the frustration that all the other sports participants are feeling but don’t condemn all of us because you don’t play golf!
Just got an email from my home course in Colorado. Many more infected people and deaths in Colorado then in Arizona but the golf courses are reopening on April 10th. What message are we sending to close our beautiful courses due to overreaction at this late date! How about you reconsider your ideology?
My hope is the latest closure of the SCW Golf courses was NOT a result of the few motor mouths that have no regard for Golf or Golf Carts in ‘The Nation’s Premier Active Adult GOLF Community’.
Changes had been made to keep this revenue generator running and seemed to be working quite well , and then all of a sudden notice of CLOSUER . I hope my view of this decision was not totally based on the ‘motor mouths’ previously mentioned, but that it was based on the health and welfare of the community.
🏌️ golfing should be allowed
They were handling it very well
People need to get out of the house and into the fresh air and sunshine .🌞 other golf courses are open.
SCW needs the money golfing brings in.
. . . and why don’t you do this every flu season?
Arizona’s totals during the COVID-19 pandemic are now 3,018 cases and 89 deaths. The population of Arizona is at 7.38 million in 2020. So far the disease has only effected .04% of the population! This is way less than the flu or any other disease. It is time to get back to normal and use some common sense
I think the staff has done a great job. This virus is serious, but we can’t shut our lives down. Remember if people practice social distancing, what a better place to do it than on the golf course. All the precautions have been taken to assure the safety of it’s members. We must remember to be safe, not just for ourselves, but those around us. People are on edge and sometimes we instill fear instead of caution. We must remember that people need to continue to live. Many sitting at home deal with loneliness and depression. Please allow them one outlet that is relatively safe. I would urge you too reconsider your decision, and allow the courses too remain open. Thank You. Duane
I just wonder why everyone says every life is precious but nobody does anything special about the people that die from the regular flu every year( 40,000 to 60,000) or the people who die in traffic accidents(40,000 a year). It is another politically correct response. How will all the children in the country get immunity since schools are closed. But I digress, do not force people to go outside our community where there could be golfers from anywhere in the world.
So now that you close the golf course is for golfers are going to get in a car go to another golf course and bring back the virus because your people aren’t too smart
When does it officially start? As of april 11th still many golfing
First and foremost, I feel that we need to remember that this is a very sad time for everyone. This pandemic is very real. It’s not sensationalized nor is it false by any means. It is something that we are not used to dealing with in this country. It has always been heard of or seen on the news happening to other countries and we try to help where we can. This virus is labeled as unprecedented for a reason – it’s affecting everyone. We all are feeling, if not the sting, definitely the pinch of this disease. We are all being inconvenienced in some way. Normality has been paused for right now – for everyone. Mandates and recommendations have been put into play for a reason. There is a lot of unknown with COVID19 and sadly people continue to get sick and some are still dying. With there being so much we do not know, I totally respect the need for these recommendations. These have not been implemented to take away our rights but to keep us from becoming like the hard hit areas. Unfortunately what we may feel to be extreme may be needed. Many of us may think we are being careful enough with the social distancing but may unknowingly be failing. Sadly it has been observed that there are many, myself included, have forgotten and have gotten too close while shopping or not following any distancing at all by chatting closely and shaking hands. It hasn’t been only the golf courses that have been restricted but now grocery stores have had to implement further restrictions. So it’s not anything personal toward any group. It’s a struggle for everyone.
Questions for Everybody that supports Mr. Schwinds decision-
1. How are you getting the Coronavirus from golfers?
2. Are golfers coming over to your house and coughing in your face?
3. If golfers are observing the safety measures on the course then how do they spread the Coronavirus?
4. If the golfers are spreading the Coronavirus in public places (stores, pharmacies etc.) shouldn’t we close them too?
5. If golf is a threat to the safety of the community then why didn’t the Governor close all the Arizona courses?
6. Is the real reason you support the decision is retaliation at golfers because the Rec Centers were closed?
Sun City Grand made the decision to keep the golf courses open even with the announcement of Sun City West closures. Their boards reasoning was in line with the 91% of other courses in the state remaining open. Please read their statement below:
The Board and Staff have received many questions as to how the closing of Sun City West will affect our decision about golf here at Sun City Grand. We respect any action any community takes, which they feel is in the best interest of the safety of their residents. We want to make sure you are aware that the Board is monitoring all golf activity, not only here but in the West Valley, in general, with the goal of keeping ourselves educated on how we can best keep golf open and safe. Jeff Hochman and his staff actively monitors a variety of options and keeps the Board informed. We compliment him and his staff for their extraordinary work during these extraordinary times. Presently, we are committed to keeping golf open and safe.
We have a strategy that we follow in deciding whether or not to close down sports venues. Initially, when we closed the buildings here at Sun City Grand, we did not close down any sports activities. As the intensity of the Virus grew quickly, we closed Pickle Ball, Bocce, Tennis, and Lawn Bowling based on three basic principals. First, these sports, when conducted under their normal rules of play, did not provide for adequate social distancing. Second, participants shared the same ball. Third, all communities were closing these same sports activities, which provided us with education certain that society as a whole confirmed it was necessary on a wide-scale basis.
When applying the same criterion to golf; First, social distancing is possible when practiced well. Second, the ball is not shared. Third, the greater community as a whole has decided to keep their courses open, indicating an apparent collective thought process that golf can be safe. For such reasons, golf will stay open at Sun City Grand, until there is specific, cumulative evidence otherwise.
While the health and lives of the residents are the most important issue that the Board must concentrate on, there is the reality of the financial impact upon the community. The finances of our residents are definitely being impacted on their own personal budgets. Similarly, the finances of the organization are being impacted due to the environment we find ourselves in today. Therefore, keeping the golf courses open does have a financial impact on our community. Health will always be the driving element of our decisions, but the reality is that the Board is well aware that in these unusual times, we have to address the budget impacts aggressively.– Don Love, President of Sun City Grand’s Board of Directors
not many members seem to be concerned about the safety and well-being of employees who are being asked to work right now. machines and tools should be disinfected after use and we are not able to do that right now.
Anecdotes about male golfers congregating at Pebblebrook may or may not have contributed to the immediately following closure of our golf courses. Coincidentally a friend recounted a day or so prior to the closure announcement that, en route home from the grocery store he passed Pebblebrook and observed a group of golf carts circled. Our friend commented on the respectful distance of one cart from another. And then waned sad about the absence of like-camaraderie for the disbanded softball players. Some replies on this SCW facebook page described men congregating on the tee boxes, greens and pavements – all observations at Pebblebrook and purported to endanger the community. Yet another observed a similar or same group as observant of distance well kept. It is well established in criminology that many witnesses experience and recall an event differently. Physics and mathematics also inform us that appearance depends on the point of observation. Actual proximity appears different when observed from afar – a patio overlooking the golf course per se. How many times have I commended my drive to the green, only to learn that my ball – appearing from afar to be mere inches from the hole – is in reality many yards distant from the pin. Check out the IBM movie, “Power of Ten” on YouTube. Reports on congregations of men at Pebblebrook are made from afar, and colored by the observer.
I work in SCW and I can tell you that I have witnessed several golf carts parked together next to the 18th hole on Pebblebrook on a daily basis with people standing or sitting closer than 6 feet apart. Golfers need to suck it up and find something else to do.
We are disappointed and feel this is an overreaction. If you took a survey of the entire community I wonder what the consensus would be. This is an open air activity and the precautions you had taken were keeping the golfers safe. You took away the last joy many of us could experience during this craziness. Both my husband and I wonder if you will also be discounting our recreation fees next year to make up the difference?
I see the question was asked about walkers using the golf course for walking during the suspension of golf.
I feel a response is necessary and if the answer is “yes”is running, cycling, skateboarding and sightseeing from a golf cart also okay. Also can these activities occur at all times?
If activities are banned entirely I hope you have a plan in place on the first day to do enforcement or we are going to have several wonderful new parks.
In follow-up to Charlie Starr’s comment: cases by zip code for
85375 are 6-10 cases. This represents only .02% – .036% for our
population in Sun City West!
I was told the 85375 zip code included the Banner Health Hospital, where patients from all over come to. So the 6-10 might only be from there.
Totaly dissagree with this decision to close courses. The courses were set up for safe play. Now im gonna have to leave Sun City West to play golf now and hope to hell I dont get sick and bring it back and get other people sick as i shop at the stores. I also pay a yearly fee to play here and think it should my decision to play. Next year your going to be crying about being low on funds because of this stupid decision you made and want to raise our rates. We already pay more for yearly passes than Sun City Grand and about 3 times more than Sun City. WHY? I DONT SEE WHERE YOUR DECISION IS JUSTIFIED AND SHOULD HAVE BEEN TAKEN TO A VOTE. DIDNT KNOW WE HAD A DICTATORSHIP HERE…
The courses could have closed to outside play and only allowed resident play with personal carts.
Just to let you know there are 6-10 cases of Covid-19 in Zip Code 85375 as reported by the AZ Dept of Health.
As reported by the Arizona Dept. of Health, as of today there are 6 To 10 cases of Covid-19 virus in Zipcode 85375. That includes Sun City West and Corte Bella. This is one month into the closure of the Recreation Centers and now all of Sun City West, golf courses. The residents of Sun City West should be told this information.
So why close the courses? I’ve read comments that people witnessed golfers not following the rules. If true, why not post notices at each course stating; “If posted rules are not followed the courses will be closed”. I can assure you all golfers would police the the situation. Should have also limited play to resident only. With the low number of cases being reported in the area, it seems things were working. The fact that other courses remain open defeats the purpose of closing ours! The financial impact of this decision will affect all of us.
Ditto.
Our regular SCW golf group practices social distancing on the golf course. We do not touch each others equipment and do maintain the 6 foot social distancing guideline. Last week we played Grandview. From the 7th tee we observed a group of 4 ladies playing cards on a back patio, in addition to sharing cards, no social distancing was apparent. After we completed our round, we observed the golf foursome in front of us crowded together near a golf cart, ignoring the plea to social distance. Bottom line, some persons will not social distance, just a fact we need to accept. It’s more the people than the activity.
Golf is not much different that walking down the street, social distancing is easy to maintain.
I will miss playing golf with my friends. My fear is that I and others will seek other courses to play. The easy choice is Hillcrest. I checked it out last Saturday. Unfortunately, their clientele is much younger and practice little social distancing. I observed many carts being shared by persons that I would guess are not in the same household. It would be a grave mistake ( yes, pun intended ) to push the SCW golfers to Hillcrest and other local courses.
SCW golf management was slow to implement social distancing check in procedures and practices. But the self check in, no cash and no golf cart rental (unfortunately, this led to non-household members sharing a golf cart since it was the only option that allowed some to play ) were good measures when finally implemented.
I would advocate the reopening of the courses with the following changes. Limit play to SCW residents. No sharing of golf carts except by household members.
So now that the high temperatures are arriving and you closed all outdoor activities, what are the time frames for getting the pools open. Do you know that high temperatures and chlorine kill the virus. So that being said, the pools are outside, there is enough space to practice the distancing.. let’s open the pools so people dont completely loose our minds. Next thing you know they will start protesting here just like other parts of the country.
Simply stated; Safety being the deciding factor. With other courses remaining open, doesn’t that defeat the purpose of closing ours?
I have read lots of the comments here about closing the courses with the community.
Most are valid. Some are mean spirited but, none the less, all carry no weight. The “manager” here has made a choice.
A very bad decision was made to close the courses. The decision was made in haste and under pressure by people that have more influence than the golfers of this community.
Saddlebrook in Tucson closed course to people outside the community and requires 1 rider per cart. That could have easily been achieve, but no.
When the projected shortfall comes, I have a solution. The fees will need to be made up by the non paying activities.
$15 dollars an hour for tennis and pickle ball, the same for all the rock throwing events.
Time for them to pony up for their complaints.
It seems management doesn’t know who pays the rent.
You are all more likely than not, temporarily, giving up SOMETHING you love for SOMEONE you love!
For clarification, the 6 -10 cases reported for zip code 85375 includes not only Corte Bella but a few other neighborhoods on the east side of El Mirage heading north so it includes more people then one would think. The risk of infection by population versus the economic impact of closing the courses does not weigh out if people are practicing social distancing. We are trading one problem for another and one that will definitely financially impact every homeowner and every future homeowner in Sun City West which can then serve to impact home values. When our dues and/or preservation fees go up to cover the shortage this closure creates, then home buyers will look to other retirement communities that have more affordable dues. I feel more at risk of contracting the virus when I go to fill up with gas or go to the grocery store then I did playing golf. I think the rec centers did a great job of closing the rec centers and offices early on and I applaud them for that. It is everyone’s responsibility to protect themselves and help control the spread and playing golf often, we were doing just that thanks to practices and polices put in place by the board. I knew the people I played with and I knew they were cautious and abiding by the social distancing rule. Now with our courses closed, I know they will go play other places that have a higher rate of infection and then come back into our community and put others at risk, so the decision to close our courses to protect us will have the opposite effect. Had the GM provided us with some facts that would justify the closure, I might be more inclined to support it but there were no facts given, just a decision of one and one that no other communities are following. I suspect the other communities know the financial impact and risk of further exposure to their communities when deciding not to close their courses. I can understand the golf staffs fears of being exposed and we would not want them getting the virus but the procedures put in place were there to protect them and if masks and gloves were provided to those employees it would have further protected them. If we had made it mandatory that all golf be paid with member credit and no outside play, we could have kept the courses open and generated some revenue to offset the daily upkeep of the courses that is sure to cost us all in the near future and that increase will be another decision that none of the owners get to participate in and have to just sit back and accept the decisions of others on our daily life and financial future. I applaud you for trying to protect us but this is not the answer for that. When you do open the courses, I won’t play for another 2 weeks so I don’t further expose myself to those that went outside of our community play and if I were the staff, I would not come back for a period of time either. We really needed to weigh out the cause and effect when this decision was made. We are not faulting you as person, just the business decision you made and the lack of reasoning and overall impact behind it. I have often heard that the member/home owners do not own the Rec Centers of Sun City West, we just have a right to use the facilities and while that is true, without our dues and preservation fees there would be no facilities so please provide us with some voice and consideration in the community we bought into.
page 3 in today’s Arizona republic newspaper says 91% of golf courses are open in the state of Arizona. that should speak volumes of the fact that golf courses are safe. your decision as a group I am sure was heartfelt, sincere and looking out for our health and safety. on the other hand all of us living inside the enclave to my reckoning are a responsible group, golfers an non-golfers alike. why would you send golfers outside of the protection of the enclave and bring back possible contamination? please reconsider your heartfelt decision and be mindful of the protection and well being of the citizens living in our sun city west . thank you
Oh how I wish we had our previous General manager back. I found he was a very intelligent man. I don’t believe he would closed the golf courses. I am sorry we have lost quality leadership.
Mr Schwind
I am very disappointed that you have caved in to the whiners.
Everything possible was done to make the golf courses as safe as possible.
You state you are a golfer also.
If I understand correctly you live in Sun City, not Sun City West so you are still able to golf. Lucky you.
What is your plan for those of us that have golf cards (ie Kachina cards)? Hopefully our expiration dates will be extended for a time equal to course closure.
When our yearly dues increase due to decreased revenue the first ones to complain will be the ones that whined to have the courses closed.
Well, you’ve made all the golf haters very happy…..
My experience on the golf course since changes were made to protect each other has been mostly very good. People have been abiding by the new rules and mostly staying safely distanced, other that married couples who really don’t need to. I and the other three in our regular group are very disappointed. Our foursome all hold twilight cards, so that’s $4800 you won’t be getting anytime soon.
I also must say, we had a ridiculous experience at Echo Mesa a few days before the courses were closed.
While waiting to go to the first tee, one of the female starters (no name necessary) became a little bit of a NAZI! She saw someone she thought might have been too close to each other and announced over the pa that golf could end today, if people don’t follow the rules. Things are bad enough without that kind of crap. I will not feel the same about golfing in Sun City West again.
I have read all the comments to date in regards to the closure of Sun City West golf courses as explained in Mr. Schwind’s commentary. Since he references “our decision” I am assuming that the RCSCW Board was involved.
I honestly believed that he/they erred in his/their judgment on this matter!
In my mind, this decision cannot in any way be construed as being tough or courageous. He/they instead politically covered his/their fanny/fannies simply by putting themselves in a win-win situation regardless of the outcome of the virus here in Sun City West. If the virus subsides or flattens he/they can take some credit. If the virus expands he/they can take some credit for mitigating any increase from having become worse. Bottom line….it was an easy out for him/they!
As for the financial ramifications he/they should be held accountable! There hasn’t been a lot of clarity as to who/whom really contributed to making and finalizing this terrible decision.
Lastly, it’s somewhat ironic that a Sun City resident, Mr. Schwind, was tasked with delivering this decision to those of us that reside in Sun City West. I hope that he has been playing golf in his community this week to alleviate some of the stress this decision has created. He at least is being afforded that opportunity!
Sun City and Sun City Grand enjoy the windfall to your golf revenue budgets as a result of this decision.
Be sure to thank Mr. Schwind and the RCSCW Board when you get a chance.
Damn Bill, you are SCW’s Mesiah. You must run for AZ Governor, you obviously have far more insight than governor Ducey. I applaud you for closing the all the golf courses to protect us from this obvious airborne virus. Golfers around the entire state should be fearful when they go out in the open air on any course. Seems it is the most likely place to catch the virus. The virus could be collecting on all of the tees, fareways, bunkers, golf cart paths, etc. It could also be spread so easily on all of the golf cart tires rolling around. No one but you has thought of protecting us from any of these senario. I thought that I was safe wearing my mask when going for a walk in the open air, while at the same time keeping a good distance from people. But not now, I was surely mistaken. Obviously my common sense measures aren’t adequate enough. Thanks for protecting me from myself. I would like to invite you into my home to review my indoor covid-19 safety measures, to make sure I do not spread this virus within my home. Perhaps you should ban everyone from getting out of bed for the next month. Thank you for your fine work Bill. Thank you, Thank you, Thank you.
Mr. Beckham. You are entitled to your opinion. Please keep it civil.
Is there any talk of rec center fee compensation?
Our annual fee now costs $480 per year, which amounts to $1.315 per day. If SCW rec centers open on May 4th that will be a total of 52 days closed. If my calculation is correct ($480/365=$1.315/day x 52 = $68.38) this will total $68.38 I think the SCWRC should reduce everyone’s next rec fee by this amount.
Looks like we line in Nazi Germany with the Gastapo in charge Lets open the golf back up
I submitted a comment yesterday and don’t see it published. Are we now censoring opinions?
Mr. White, we are working on a limited staff right now. We appreciate your patience.
One could make an argument that we could all be playing outdoor activities with some level of protection. Nitrile or football gloves on hands would resolve the issue with hand to hand contact on a softball (no sitting together in dugout), on a tennis ball, a pickle ball. I can sure social distance with my dog in the dog park. I’d like to be doing all those things. Yet all that is closed. I know when I golf, I use the facilities. I’m touching doorknobs, the handle on the urinal. I’d argue there’s more people touching a shared physical object in golf. Retrieving my ball from 18 holes that how many people have touched before me? Those whining about not being able to golf…..it’s not about you! It’s about everyone else exposed to you at the grocery store, the doctors office, the essential businesses. I’m amazed people are making the argument about catching something going to another golf course that’s open but seem to think they’re immune at a golf course at SCW. It’s shared sacrifice people.
Checked today the number of cases of virus in Arizona by zip code. 85375 which is Sun City West, reported 6 to 10 cases. Maybe our directors need to do a little more research before making such an important decision. I hope that their decision wasn’t based on pressures from those that don’t play golf. Time to reopen.
I drove through Sun City Grand today and there were golfers on the loose on every course. Also, one of my friends who lives in Sun City tells me their courses are still open. It is not too late to admit you erred on the side of caution and reopen our courses immediately. We have already lost too much money, so let’s “stop the bleeding” and get the money flow started again and let us back out getting about the only form of exercise on which many of us rely.
I UNDERSTAND THE DECISION TO CLOSE THE GOLF COURSES IN PART. THE GOLF COURSES HAVE DONE A TERRIFIC JOB IN MODIFYING THE COURSE & PLAYING CONDITIONS INCLUDING SOCIAL DISTANCING ON THE COURSE AND AROUND THE CLUBHOUSE. MANY WHO HAVE FELT IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN CLOSED DO NOT UNDERSTAND THIS. THEY ONLY KNOW IF AS GOLF. OTHER SUN CITY ORGANIZATIONS HAVE CONTINUED OPEN USING THESE SAME CRITERIA. THE ABILITY TO PLAY GOLF UNDER THESE CONDITIONS ENHANCED OUR WELL BEING WITHOUT JEOPARDIZING THE SOCIAL DISTANCING REQUIREMENT. THE GOLF COURSES IS TRULY DIFFERENT THAN MOST ALL CLUBS. PLEASE RECONSIDER AS MAY APPROACHES. THANKS FOR ALL YOU ARE DOING TO WORK THROUGH THIS.
Where are comments submitted after April 13, 2020?
Golf Courses around the country are reopening. An article from Golf Advisors state, “The big news in the past 24 hours in the MIdwest is that Wisconsin and Minnesota governments have both announced golf courses may reopen. Wisconsin Governor Tony Evers announced on Thursday that state courses can reopen with restrictions in place starting next Friday, April 24th. Restrictions include no golf carts, closed driving ranges and clubhouses.
Then, on Friday morning, Minnesota Governor Tim Walz announced golf courses can reopen under social distancing guidelines starting as soon as Saturday, April 18th. It’s a remarkable reversal for the state, considering as late as April 8th, it prohibited not just playing golf, but also golf course maintenance.
Also on Friday, Empire State Development in New York revised their guidelines in regards to essential businesses and golf courses may reopen with social distancing guidelines in place. ”
All golf courses surrounding Sun City West are open for business. Please reopen SCW Golf Courses.
I have searched the internet trying to find any reference to where the Covid-19 virus outbreak was traced to people playing at a golf course. None! With recommended safety practices we have implemented at SCW we should be safer on the course than at the local grocery store. Please reopen SCW Golf Courses.
Are any of the Governing Board members standing up to the general manager regarding decisions made to “protect “ the citizens of SCW? Stating that the golf courses in SCW are closing because states like California and others on his list have closed theirs is disingenuous and a poor disguise of a misguided belief that you know what’s best for others and that they can’t be trusted to make good decisions. It’s a good idea to be cautious. But also remember that some people will not follow guidelines no matter what. Fortunately, they are not in the majority.
To Whom It My Concern,
As an active golfer and year round resident of SCW I want to share my displeasure of your decision to close the cities golf courses due to the Covid-19 pandemic. Having golfed four times a week during the pandemic I have followed the recommendations you have posted. My fellow golfers have followed your guidelines and to my knowledge there has not been any community spread of this virus within our city. This is one of the few activities that by it’s design easily follows social distancing. Your proclamation of closing the golf courses at this time does not provide answers to why now they are being closed. I would appreciate your decision making process of why you are closing the golf courses.
New York golf courses can reopen with coronavirus restrictions
https://www.google.com/amp/s/nypost.com/2020/04/18/new-york-golf-courses-can-reopen-with-coronavirus-restrictions/amp/
NY feels it’s safe to reopen golf. What data driven criteria will be used to reopen all SCW recreation facilities?
Let’s remember why social distancing was instituted. It was done to “flatten” the curve. There was real concern that our healthcare system would be overwhelmed. As of 4/13 our healthcare system had not been overwhelmed. Some SCW residents voiced concerned about the golfers on the course not properly social distancing. Yet, my personal observation is that compared to the grocery stores, pharmacies, and home depot, etc I was always more secluded while on our golf courses. To those who have elected to stay at home, shop from home, essentially lock-down at home I commend you. High risk individuals are doing right to protect themselves. However, if you are in lock down it matters little what happens on our golf courses. No golfer will infect you.
Other states that had previously closed their courses are now opening their courses next week. I encourage SCW to end this unnecessary closure now.
One very pertinent question: How many comments are being withheld from this site due to what is referred to as “your comment is awaiting moderation.”? To deliberately withhold a number of comments can certainly skew the results to either side of the particular issue and defeats the purpose of seeking comments from the general membership. Please have the courage to release that figure so as to ensure honesty and transparency by those running this site. Thank you.
Hi Terry. We very rarely withhold comments here. Very, very rarely. If they serve no purpose other than to be mean-spirited, particularly to a named individual, then we withhold it. If it is a purely private question from an individual with their private information or circumstances and wasn’t intended for public consumption, we answer it privately. Otherwise, we post all commetns.
Even Palm Springs area golf courses opened today! This misguided closing must END. The pools, dog parks, pickleball, softball, and of course, GOLF courses, should open immediately. There is no logical rationale to keep them closed any longer.
#REOPEN SCW NOW!
Hi Randall. Safety comes first. Social distancing has been working and has reduced the number of cases in Sun City West. When Arizona is past its peak, we will announce our phased reopening plan.
Our community is comprised of people 55-85 years of age, here’s an idea, let people make their own decisions. It’s pretty amazing how those in a position of “power” are quick to strip people of their freedoms and liberties, while still charging them for facilities that are now off limits. These people think they know what is best for everyone, this is a common trait of people who hold such positions.
For the folks who are terrified of this China virus, stay home quarantine yourself, but don’t impose your decisions and opinions on others. The people of this country are not going to stand for this tyranny much longer, hence the growing protests across the country.
Here is something that may shock some of you, golfers are still playing golf! I have been traveling and playing at other courses in the valley with my friends, and we find places to gather and have post round beers etc.
Even as a golfer I think all recreation facilities should be open. Studies have been done that being outside is one of the best ways to beat viruses.
Our nation seems to be in a period of atrophy, citizens are becoming mere sheep, waiting for someone in Government or other position of authority to tell them what they can do and when and how they can do it. Trust me these people who hold these position love sheep! Don’t give up your freedoms and liberties to government or you will lose them forever.
When can we expect to see a prorated Rec center fee refund??
Frank Gilbert. You are entitled to your opinion. We disagree and believe it is still unsafe to gather in groups, particularly in our age group. Member dues are not facility dues. They pay for your membership in the Association, which entails much much more than facility usage. Thank you.
To our Board Members and Mr. Schwind, Thank you very much for doing the right thing and opening some of the golf courses. I know you all were trying to protect all of us here in Sun City West by closing things. There are alot of good leaders out there with good intentions, being a great leader is being able to admit you made a mistake and correct the error. So thank you from alot of us here at Sun City West.
Totally agree with Frank! Do not say that maintaining the facilities cleanliness ie..air conditioning, cleaning and stocking, supporting all the club activities, carries very little expense! While I accept your lockdown i do not accept your trivial chamber of commerce justification for not refunding dues!
Mr Schwind I applaud you for making the tough decisions to close the rec facilities and the golf courses. I have read many of the comments others have submitted and I find it hard to believe some people are so unable to understand the danger to all of us posed by social gatherings. Apparently they are only interested in themselves and do not furthermore understand the danger they are placing themselves in by their actions. Do they not listen to the medical experts who have been telling us what we have to do to protect ourselves and society in general?
Again, thank you for your leadership in these hard times and keep up the good work.
Sun City courses stayed open … Sun City Grand courses stayed open … Sun City Festival courses stayed open … states like MN who closed courses state wide are reopening them now that it is warm enough there to golf …. but Sun City West leadership think they know better ? I have inadvertent close encounters with people in grocery stores all the time, but on the golf course there is hardly ever anyone near me !!! This illogical move to close our rec center courses now has me golfing at neighboring courses, and I NEVER have other golfers get too close to me on those courses … it is called MANAGING and all the courses outside of SCW know how to manage safety into their clubs !!
I read your letter concerning the reopening of the golf courses and applaud your decision. I’m sure golfers are now quite aware of the golfing restrictions and will make every effort to social distance and follow the safeguards you have put in place. I also noticed that you did not address the issue concerning golf card holders. Will our card expiration dates be extended equal to the number of days the courses were closed?
I’m wondering why there hasn’t been any updated information about the course closures?
The initial article on closing the courses was April 8 2020, I’ts been a month already and
no updates, possible opening, or any information at all on what’s going on. What are the
General Manager and Governing board doing? Don’t they think members of this association
deserve to be kept up with what’s going on?
Please take some time and inform the members.